How Hard Is Math 53 Without Good Background

Phokus [OP]: Sr. Member; Jul 28, 2008; 877 posts; 251 upvotes; Toronto

Jul fifth, 2017 12:04 am

How hard is the CFA without any finance/math background?

Looking to write the CFA next year, but take no formal didactics in annihilation related to finance/math etc. -- studied a generic liberal arts program in university. Has anyone been able to successfully pass all iii levels in a similar situation? Looking to further my career and the CFA would open a lot of doors, only would like to know how realistic it is. Thanks in advance.

Jul 5th, 2017 1:03 pm

#two

expatflame: Member; Apr 27, 2014; 375 posts; 129 upvotes; Mississauga, ON

Jul fifth, 2017 ane:03 pm

Anything is possible but these exams are really difficult for people who majored in finance. The first yr fail rate is ~55-60% depending on the twelvemonth. Levels two and three tend to be closer to a l% fail charge per unit.

Jul 5th, 2017 one:41 pm

#three

mech9t5: Bargain Fanatic; Dec 16, 2005; 6249 posts; 4347 upvotes

Jul 5th, 2017 1:41 pm

Phokus wrote: ↑ Looking to write the CFA adjacent yr, but take no formal education in anything related to finance/math etc. -- studied a generic liberal arts program in university. Has anyone been able to successfully laissez passer all three levels in a like state of affairs? Looking to further my career and the CFA would open a lot of doors, only would like to know how realistic it is. Thanks in advance.

what are you looking to get into? CFAs are a dime a dozen and aren't highly regarded in finance. Work experience is key.

Jul 5th, 2017 2:26 pm

Dpack22: Deal Addict; Mar 16, 2010; 3325 posts; 1880 upvotes

Jul fifth, 2017 ii:26 pm

For me, having experience in bookkeeping was super helpful for level i and ii. Not impossible only yous've got your work cut out for y'all. Exist prepared to say goodbye to your weekends.

However if you're banking on the CFA to magically open doors for yous, you're gonna have a bad time.

Jul 5th, 2017 2:39 pm

HelloWorld3: Banned; Jul 1, 2017; 239 posts; 138 upvotes

Jul 5th, 2017 2:39 pm

Dpack22 wrote: ↑ For me, having experience in accounting was super helpful for level 1 and 2. Not impossible but you've got your work cut out for you. Be prepared to say farewell to your weekends.

However if you're banking on the CFA to magically open doors for you, y'all're gonna take a bad time.

I call up this needs to be reiterated. I know a few people that have a firm belief in wealth/prestige post-obit letters. People pay for your relevant experience; we all know that you're ability to retain learned cloth is lost if non used. Equally a adept instance, a few CA's have CFA's and are in Corporate Finance. Ask them about a payroll/GST reconciliation and you'll go a bare stare for days.

I was planning on doing CFA/CBV concurrently with the CPA; unfortunately, things changed and I moved away from public practice (and that goal). From my new perspective, I can honestly say school gets in the way of finding yourself: finding/exploring what yous're adept at and hit that home. Studying for the sake of 'being competitive' is not at all beneficial if you lot're already gainfully employed; learning the business and figuring out intuitive methodologies/approaches to enhance productivity/add-value is what will make you desired (desired > competitiveness).

I'd honestly say, unless you're fresh out of school looking for some credibility when you lot speak your mind (which is what the designation does for me), focus on establishing your skills first.

Jul fifth, 2017 5:30 pm

picard12: Temp. Banned; December 2, 2007; 899 posts; 108 upvotes; Toronto

Jul 5th, 2017 5:30 pm

it is incommunicable to obtain CFA without math background. I read the CFA book and it has alot of advanced calculus math.
you accept to exist desperate enough to go into CFA without math bacground. information technology is suicide.

Jul 5th, 2017 half dozen:00 pm

Dpack22: Bargain Addict; Mar 16, 2010; 3325 posts; 1880 upvotes

Jul 5th, 2017 half-dozen:00 pm

picard12 wrote: ↑ it is impossible to obtain CFA without math background. I read the CFA book and it has alot of advanced calculus math.
you accept to be drastic plenty to become into CFA without math bacground. it is suicide.

Wut?

Jul 5th, 2017 9:ten pm

#viii

raichu1: Deal Addict; Oct 16, 2013; 2404 posts; 760 upvotes; New Brunswick

Jul 5th, 2017 nine:10 pm

It seems that doing CFA is a new way of suicide...

Jul 5th, 2017 10:03 pm

marc_t: Deal Addict; Feb 28, 2005; 3167 posts; 1192 upvotes; Montreal

Jul 5th, 2017 10:03 pm

Advice here is completely r3tarded.

Succeeding all iii levels of the CFA program is considered equivalent to a principal's degree. Information technology is difficult.

Of class relevant experience is improve than any degree. But the CFA can open many doors.

@mech9t5 re: they are "a dime a dozen"; co-ordinate to you, CFA s' would exist good burger-flippers ?

Customer at: Tangerine, VoIP.ms, Virgin Mobile

Jul fifth, 2017 11:05 pm

#ten

raichu1: Bargain Addict; Oct 16, 2013; 2404 posts; 760 upvotes; New Brunswick

Jul fifth, 2017 11:05 pm

Why practise yous desire to do a CFA? You will be limited to majuscule finance. Is this what yous want to do? It is super competitive. Getting a CFA doesn't hateful that you volition be a Principle Portfolio Manager the next day.

Do you accept someone that can help y'all become a job?

Jul 6th, 2017 12:32 am

angrybanker: Sr. Member; Sep 28, 2013; 791 posts; 549 upvotes

Jul 6th, 2017 12:32 am

picard12 wrote: ↑information technology is impossible to obtain CFA without math background. I read the CFA book and it has alot of advanced calculus math.
you have to be desperate enough to become into CFA without math bacground. information technology is suicide.

It absolutely does not take whatever advanced calculus in information technology. The CFA is high school mathematics, at worst. The difficulty is in the volume and not in the complexity of the cloth. It may take a long fourth dimension to acquire, but it's doable. Still if you picked up an advanced theoretical physics text, you lot'll see what advanced mathematics really looks like- it's another universe.

Jul sixth, 2017 ten:25 am

1LoveToronto: Newbie; Feb 10, 2017; 96 posts; 84 upvotes

Jul 6th, 2017 x:25 am

Phokus wrote: ↑Looking to write the CFA adjacent year, just accept no formal education in anything related to finance/math etc. -- studied a generic liberal arts program in university. Has anyone been able to successfully pass all three levels in a similar situation? Looking to farther my career and the CFA would open a lot of doors, but would like to know how realistic information technology is. Thanks in advance.

No, it does not.

picard12 wrote: ↑it is impossible to obtain CFA without math background. I read the CFA volume and it has alot of advanced calculus math.
yous have to be desperate enough to become into CFA without math bacground. it is suicide.

You lot must be the sixty% of level one.

Jul sixth, 2017 11:14 am

Dpack22: Deal Addict; Mar 16, 2010; 3325 posts; 1880 upvotes

Jul 6th, 2017 xi:14 am

angrybanker wrote: ↑ Information technology absolutely does not have any avant-garde calculus in it. The CFA is loftier schoolhouse mathematics, at worst. The difficulty is in the volume and not in the complexity of the material. It may accept a long time to acquire, merely information technology'southward doable. However if you picked up an advanced theoretical physics text, you'll meet what advanced mathematics actually looks similar- it's another universe.

+1....Shoving half-dozen textbooks worth of textile into a vi hour examination is bound to exist tough for most people, but the math certainly isn't difficult. Comes downwardly to exercise and mental fortitude.

Level ane is something of a gear check (I used to play WoW). Level two I found to exist the most quantitatively challenging but Level iii had the hardest test format. I remember I saw people crying after I wrote level iii, shit was hilarious.

Over again, won't magically open up any doors unless you get your connections and networking on point. Even and so don't count on it.

Jul sixth, 2017 11:56 am

Savak2015: Member; Aug 12, 2016; 268 posts; 67 upvotes

Jul sixth, 2017 11:56 am

Based on ascertainment. Most employers in the market in Canada and the United states understand that the CFA gives you a solid education in Banking, Stocks, Brokerage, Economics but as well understand it is but relevant for people in Securities trading, Securities Enquiry, Asset and Portfolio Management but nothing else, besides it is non going to get you a foot in the door but tin assist you later on every bit you larn relevant experience.

In the sub continent where at that place is a shortage of degrees, designations and where non anybody knows English, goes to College, University, it will give you an border even if you work in the Finance department of a company every bit people with the designation are perceived to be smarter than those without the designation, ofcourse it also depends on the quality of your experience and how well you create an impression during the interview process.

Jul 6th, 2017 1:53 pm

HelloWorld3: Banned; Jul 1, 2017; 239 posts; 138 upvotes

Jul 6th, 2017 1:53 pm

Dpack22 wrote: ↑ +ane....Shoving 6 textbooks worth of material into a 6 hour examination is bound to be tough for near people, but the math certainly isn't difficult. Comes down to do and mental fortitude.

Level i is something of a gear check (I used to play WoW). Level 2 I constitute to exist the most quantitatively challenging but Level 3 had the hardest exam format. I remember I saw people crying subsequently I wrote level 3, shit was hilarious.

Once again, won't magically open any doors unless you get your connections and networking on point. Even then don't count on it.

I agree that Designations in general do not magically open doors - it'south all almost relevant experience.

To share an experience that might striking this betoken dwelling, I remember asking recruiter what I would need to be competitive for a Controller-type role while I was in University. That recruiter told me - every bit a start - that I did not have whatsoever monthly-accounting responsibilities and that I was lacking this to really go anywhere in accounting. So, I picked upwardly a projection bookkeeping part and got that experience. Several years later (with a designation and public exercise experience) I met with a recruiter over again after finding it tough to land an interview for a lot of Controller-blazon roles; that recruiter said the same affair and I was a flake frustrated "because" I had that experience several years ago and didn't fully elaborate that on my resume.

My point? The designation doesn't make you lot more uniform/competitive for a position if you lot're missing the relevant feel. Even though I had/have it, I didn't elaborate this on my resume and - for quite some time I would assume - about 60 minutes/Application Reviewers likely screened out my awarding because they probable thought the aforementioned matter.

Did making that change/elaboration to my resume improve my job search? Yep; notwithstanding, even with a CPA and the required experience, the market is flooded with people that have similar (if non more) experience and designations and I found (find) myself getting stuck in a 1A vs 1B interview/contest continuing (6 now). Getting another designation (CFA, CBV, or even an MBA) would not brand me more than highly-seasoned because I'd probably screened out equally someone "too expensive" (a judge). Anyway, the logic here is fifty-fifty with the qualifications and relevant experience - naught is guaranteed.

Some other point is that inundating yourself with educational activity and designations/certifications doesn't make you more competitive to the market; it makes you qualified for niche positions (which are very rare to come up up).

What I've learned - and I am by no means in an terminate-game function here - is that yous demand to stop convention education streams in social club to build a competitive reward. The moment I stepped out of that bubble (rat race to designation), I found myself over-performing in my job; learning business skills; hell, I'g even trying to find means to build an entrepreneurial mind/team. I find the whole push for designations to be severely limiting your capacity to provide value to yourself - but that's my opinion.

Jul 6th, 2017 iv:04 pm

curlyface: Sr. Member; Oct 15, 2009; 734 posts; 539 upvotes; Toronto

Jul sixth, 2017 4:04 pm

I'll preface this by maxim I have my CFA charter and work in Asset Management in Toronto..

mech9t5 wrote: ↑ what are you looking to get into? CFAs are a dime a dozen and aren't highly regarded in finance. Work experience is fundamental.

CFA'southward not highly regarded in finance is a joke. It'due south the gold standard and valued above Masters in Finance and of form any undergrad degree.

The guy who said there's calculus in the CFA program must take responded to the wrong thread. At that place is 0 calculus. If you lot know basic algebra and passed course 11 math yous should exist fine. There are A LOT of formulas that yous'll need to memorize/sympathise but they are non at all related to calculus. To answer your question directly: Information technology volition be hard equally hell. You will dedicate the better part of two-3 years to completing it, and the payoff may not be what you expected. The merchandise off of the CFA program is time for money -- pregnant the program is inexpensive but it will take a minimum of m hours of study to consummate.

The key is this:
Discover jobs yous want to work, cheque the requirements, and pursue them.

The CFA will assistance but it is by no means a golden ticket. The only fashion to actually get the charter after yous pass the exams is to have relevant experience, so without the experience you can't even get the charter. Your best bet is to write the GMAT and become a good MBA. I know information technology sucks and is 1-2 more than years of schoolhouse, super expensive, etc. but this is absolutely your best mode into the finance world and it volition also give you exposure to other business organisation related fields (consulting, marketing, etc) and you lot can make up one's mind if you even desire to work in finance (probably not, honestly).

Sep tenth, 2017 9:35 pm

Phokus [OP]: Sr. Member; Jul 28, 2008; 877 posts; 251 upvotes; Toronto

Sep tenth, 2017 ix:35 pm

curlyface wrote: ↑ I'll preface this by saying I take my CFA charter and piece of work in Asset Management in Toronto..

CFA's not highly regarded in finance is a joke. It's the gold standard and valued above Masters in Finance and of course any undergrad degree.

The guy who said there's calculus in the CFA program must accept responded to the wrong thread. There is 0 calculus. If y'all know basic algebra and passed grade 11 math you should be fine. At that place are A LOT of formulas that y'all'll need to memorize/sympathise only they are not at all related to calculus. To answer your question directly: It will be hard equally hell. You lot will dedicate the improve role of ii-3 years to completing information technology, and the payoff may not be what you expected. The trade off of the CFA plan is time for coin -- meaning the program is inexpensive but it will take a minimum of grand hours of study to complete.

The key is this:
Find jobs you want to work, bank check the requirements, and pursue them.

The CFA will assistance but it is by no means a gilded ticket. The only manner to really get the charter later you pass the exams is to have relevant experience, so without the feel you tin can't fifty-fifty get the charter. Your best bet is to write the GMAT and get a good MBA. I know it sucks and is 1-two more years of school, super expensive, etc. but this is absolutely your all-time way into the finance earth and information technology will also give yous exposure to other business related fields (consulting, marketing, etc) and y'all can decide if you even want to piece of work in finance (probably non, honestly).

Some skillful insight, thanks.

Sep 10th, 2017 ix:48 pm

Guest5666777784: Member; Feb xiii, 2017; 369 posts; 350 upvotes; toronto, ontario

Sep 10th, 2017 9:48 pm

I passed CFA Level 1 and ii before deciding the CFP would exist far more relevant to my line of work (wealth management).

The CFA is roughly equivalent, in terms of difficulty level and study hours required, to a MBA plan.

Every bit others accept noted above, advanced mathematics are non required just a proficient understanding of accounting is helpful.

"curlyface" makes some first-class points about the real-life marketability of the CFA.

Sep 11th, 2017 1:42 pm

#xix

curlyface: Sr. Member; Oct 15, 2009; 734 posts; 539 upvotes; Toronto

Sep 11th, 2017 ane:42 pm

PhotoSmurf wrote: ↑ I passed CFA Level 1 and 2 earlier deciding the CFP would exist far more relevant to my line of work (wealth management).

The CFA is roughly equivalent, in terms of difficulty level and study hours required, to a MBA program.

As others have noted above, advanced mathematics are not required simply a good understanding of accounting is helpful.

"curlyface" makes some fantabulous points about the existent-life marketability of the CFA.

Honestly, you should actually finish it. The ROI for you lot is huge. The difference between "Passed Level two" and "CFA" is unbelievable when applying for jobs and honestly, the required effort for level three is significantly lower than level ii (in my opinion, at least). Peculiarly if you plan on working in finance. In 10 years you'll become to a point where people significantly out qualify yous in terms of education (bold y'all only have an undergrad + CFP) and at that betoken it's unlikely you'll want to showtime the process of Level 3 over again. Do information technology now, give thanks me later

Sep 11th, 2017 ii:48 pm

#twenty

TotallyKiller: Deal Aficionado; Mar 31, 2005; 3354 posts; 300 upvotes; Calgary

Sep 11th, 2017 two:48 pm

picard12 wrote: ↑ it is incommunicable to obtain CFA without math background. I read the CFA volume and it has alot of advanced calculus math.
yous have to be desperate enough to get into CFA without math bacground. it is suicide.

You should look up the discussion "impossible".